Today it was reaffirmed that banshees are going to be gender locked...

[Elveone]

It is on google but it is two words. Try searching for

"far shee" fairy

with the quotation marks included.

[Jaina Chaosweaver of Fate]

It is on google but it is two words. Try searching for

 

with the quotation marks included.

If I do that on a private window (to exclude any interference from my previous searches) I get that the translation of far shee is fairy man. Other than that, and the link that it has with banshee (which translates into fairy woman, and that is the only link it has), it does not lead me to any known creature of myth and legend.

[Skull]

If I do that on a private window (to exclude any interference from my previous searches) I get that the translation of far shee is fairy man. Other than that, and the link that it has with banshee (which translates into fairy woman, and that is the only link it has), it does not lead me to any known creature of myth and legend.

i put "far shee" fairy in google and i found very little. i looked at many different sites and the word did not show up. only the word fairy showed up on one site with banshee under it but had a lot of other Ireland folklore creatures under it. The site used fairy as the name for the group they fall under. it was a Ireland folklore wedding site so am not sure how trustworthy that is. Am sorry am not trying to be mean @Elveone but i could not find the word. If you think you are right then show us some sites that say otherwise. Plus i would trust mike more since he knows what he is talking about when it comes to Ireland folklore from what i have heard from him in discord voice chats.

[Elveone]

Oh, there is very little to find, mostly a mention in an old book under the description of a banshee.

This is the thing that mentions it as a counterpart of the banshee: https://blogs.lib.ku.edu/spencer/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Yeats_Y194.pdf

Here is a thing that says it is a leprechaun: https://www.duchas.ie/en/src?q=leprechaun&t=CbesTranscript&ct=LG

As you can see the validity of both is pretty suspect but the word does appear here and there it seems.

[Roband]

i bet they just googled it and took it at face value. When people can make up anything on the internet and say it is fact. It most properly started as fan fiction. Plus i would trust an Irishman more then some people who just looked at google.

 

There are no "they", it was me who found the term on google since i was genuinely curious about the discussion

 

And i didn't take anything at face value, i posted what i found (specifying where i found the informations and that unfortunatly i couldn't find a riable source) and asked if someone ever heard of it (Faceless Mike and Elveone specifically becouse they seemed the most knowledgeable on the topic)

 

"i bet they just googled it"

 

yes i didn't go to the airport to buy a ticket for Ireland and ask around to the locals to satisfy my curiosity

Edited December 4, 2020 by Roband

[Calypso]

As interesting as this continued discussion would be, an endless circle not withstanding, i vote we just close this thread. The horse has been killed, beaten, resurrected and killed again.

[Reckoning]

Oh, there is very little to find, mostly a mention in an old book under the description of a banshee.

This is the thing that mentions it as a counterpart of the banshee: https://blogs.lib.ku.edu/spencer/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Yeats_Y194.pdf

Here is a thing that says it is a leprechaun: https://www.duchas.ie/en/src?q=leprechaun&t=CbesTranscript&ct=LG

As you can see the validity of both is pretty suspect but the word does appear here and there it seems.

 

The phrase "The name corresponds to the less common Far Shee" is literally all it says. The Yeats book has this sentence, and every other mention on the internet has this exact plagiarized sentence. Excluding of course the tumblr & angelfire sites.

 

Again. Far Shee isn't a thing.

[Reckoning]

Yeats in 1888

THE BANSHEE.

[THE banshee (from ban \bean\ a woman, and shee \sidhe\ a fairy) is an attendant fairy that follows the old families, and none but them, and wails before a death. Many have seen her as she goes wailing and clapping her hands. The keen \caoine\, the funeral cry of the peasantry, is said to be an imitation of her cry. When more than one banshee is present, and they wail and sing in chorus, it is for the death of some holy or great one. An omen that sometimes accom- panies the banshee is the coach-a-boiver \c6iste-bodhar\ an immense black coach, mounted by a coffin, and drawn by headless horses driven by a Dullahan. It will go rumbling to your door, and if you open it, according to Croker, a basin of blood will be thrown in your face. These headless phan- toms are found elsewhere than in Ireland. In 1807 two of the sentries stationed outside St. James's Park died of fright. A headless woman, the upper part of her body naked, used to pass at midnight and scale the railings. After a time the sentries were stationed no longer at the haunted spot. In Norway the heads of corpses were cut off to make their ghosts feeble. Thus came into existence the Dullahans, perhaps ; unless, indeed, they are descended from that Irish giant who swam across the Channel with his head in his teeth. ED.]

https://archive.org/details/fairyfolktalesof00yeatuoft/page/108/mode/2up?q=Banshee

 

Yeats in 1890

THE BANSHEE.

[The banshee (from ban \bea7i\^ a woman, and sJiee \sidhe\ a fairy) is an attendant fairy that follows the old families, and none but them, and wails before a death. Many have seen her as she goes wailing and clapping her hands. The keen \caome\ the funeral cry of the peasantry, is said to be an imitation of her cry. When more than one banshee is present, and they wail and sing in chorus, it is for the death of some holy or great one. An omen that sometimes accom- panies the banshee is the coach-a-bower [cdiste-bodhar] — an immense black coach, mounted by a coffin, and drawn by headless horses driven by a Dullahan. It will go rumbling to your door, and if you open it, according to Croker, a basin of blood will be thrown in your face. These headless phan- toms are found elsewhere than in Ireland. In 1807 two of the sentries stati'oned outside St. James's Park died of fright. A headless woman, the upper part of her body naked, used to pass at midnight and scale the railings. After a time the sentries were stationed no longer at the haunted spot. In Norway the heads of corpses were cut off to make their ghosts feeble. Thus came into existence the Dullahans^ perhaps j unless, indeed, they are descended from that Irish giant who swam across the Channel vvith his head in his teeth. — Ed.]

https://archive.org/details/fairyfolktalesof00yeat/page/108/mode/2up?q=Banshee

 

Yeats in 1892

 

9. The Banshee (Ir. Bean-sidhe^ />. fairy woman). — This fairy, like the Far Gorta, differs from the general run of solitary fairies by its generally good disposition. She is perhaps not really one of them at all, but a sociable fairy grown solitary through much sorrow. The name corresponds to the less common Far Shee (Ir. Fear Sidhe), a man fairy. She wails, as most people know, over the death of a member of some old Irish family. Sometimes she is an enemy of the house and screams with triumph, but more often a friend. When more than one Banshee comes to cry, the man or woman who is dying must have been very holy or very brave. Occasionally she is most undoubtedly one of the sociable fairies. Cleena, once an Irish princess and then a Munster goddess, and now a Sheoque, is thus mentioned by the greatest of Irish antiquarians.

O'Donovan, writing in 1849 to a friend, who quotes his words in the Dublin University Magazine^ says : * When my grandfather died in- Leinster in 1798, Cleena came all the way from Ton Cleena to lament him ; but she has not been heard ever since lamenting any of our race, though I believe she still weeps in the mountains of Drumaleaque in her own country, where so many of the race of Eoghan More are dying of starvation.' The Banshee on the other hand who cries with triumph is often believed to be no fairy but a ghost of one wronged by an ancestor of the dying. Some say wrongly that she never goes beyond the seas, but dwells always in her own country. Upon the other hand, a distinguished writer on anthropology assures me that he has heard her on ist December 1867, in Pital, near Libertad, Central America, as he rode through a deep forest. She was dressed in pale yellow, and raised a cry like the cry of a bat. She came to announce the death of his father. This is her cry, written down by him with the help of a Frenchman and a violin.

 

 

He saw and heard her again on 5th February 1871, at 16 Devonshire Street, Queen's Square, London. She came this time to announce the death of his eldest child ; and in 1 884 he again saw and heard her at 28 East Street, Queen's Square, the death of his mother being the cause. The Banshee is called badh or bowa in East Munster, and is named Bachuntha by Banim in one of his novels.

Other Fairies and Spirits. — Besides the foregoing, we have other solitary fairies, of which too little definite is known to give them each a separate men- tion. They are the House Spirits, of whom *Teigue of the Lee' is probably an instance ; the Water Sherie, a kind of will-o'-the-wisp ; the Sowlth, a formless luminous creature ; the Pastha (Piast- bestia\ the lake dragon, a guardian of hidden treasure ; and the Bo men fairies, who live in the marshes of County Down and destroy the unwary. They may be driven away by a blow from a particular kind of sea -weed. I suspect them of being Scotch fairies imported by Scotch settlers. Then there is the great tribe of ghosts called Thivishes in some parts.

These are all the fairies and spirits I have come across in Irish folklore. There are probably many others undiscovered.

W. B. Yeats.

Co. Down, June 1891.

https://archive.org/details/fairytalesirish00yeatrich/page/230/mode/2up?q=Banshee

 

Providing this, for context.

 

The entire section is rewritten. It doesn't even mention the Far Shee before or beyond this in the entire book. Not saying I know, but to me, this looks like one of those things you throw in your writing so you can identify plagiarists.

[Skull]

wait so far shee is only in the 1892 copies of this book and not in the older versions. Plus it is only like 5 words in the whole book. This was their smoking gun. which seems kinda weak.

[Skull]

As interesting as this continued discussion would be, an endless circle not withstanding, i vote we just close this thread. The horse has been killed, beaten, resurrected and killed again.

This thread should of ended awhile ago. The horse at this point is so dead that it does not even look like a horse any more and is just flesh on the ground

[Reckoning]

wait so far shee is only in the 1892 copies of this book and not in the older versions. Plus it is only like 5 words in the whole book. This was their smoking gun. which seems kinda weak.

They are different books, but they are the same author and they cover the same materials with largely the same structure.

[Elveone]

The phrase "The name corresponds to the less common Far Shee" is literally all it says. The Yeats book has this sentence, and every other mention on the internet has this exact plagiarized sentence. Excluding of course the tumblr & angelfire sites.

 

Again. Far Shee isn't a thing.

Well, unless you want to rewrite reality it is obviously a thing. A thing that someone found and asked about. It is not a male banshee in the terms of it being a male harbinger of death but it is a male banshee in terms of banshee meaning woman of the sidhe and far shee meaning man of the sidhe. And as you can see there is an independent account for the term being used for a leprechaun.

[Reckoning]

Well, unless you want to rewrite reality it is obviously a thing. A thing that someone found and asked about. It is not a male banshee in the terms of it being a male harbinger of death but it is a male banshee in terms of banshee meaning woman of the sidhe and far shee meaning man of the sidhe. And as you can see there is an independent account for the term being used for a leprechaun.

 

Do you know what "an independent account" is?

 

An anomaly.

 

The "independent account" for those still reading this thread.

[Elveone]

Do you know what "an independent account" is?

 

An anomaly.

 

The "independent account" for those still reading this thread.

Do you know what not being a thing is? Not existing anywhere. The thing is obviously mentioned in multiple places. Denying a thing is mentioned somewhere when you have the place that mentions it right in front of your eyes is asinine. What are going going to argue next? The translation of the term? That it obviously is from the same mythology?

 

And do you know what an anomaly is? An anomaly is something that is not normal. So either the text that mentions the term "far shee" as a counterpart of the banshee is the normal and true one as it is most spread out or one of the 3 unique texts that mentions the term on the internet is not an anomaly but a relative part of the discussion. So which one is it? Is the "far shee" the male counterpart of the banshee or is it a vague term that any information available for is relevant?

[Skull]

i don't think it means anything. since it's like one book that you found that uses the word In the book i think it's just a throw away line that should be ignored. If the word was widely used in many books then maybe you would have a point. @Roband even said the thing does not even scream so how can it have anything to do with the banshee when it's main factor is that it screams. it could even just be a word that very few people use for some other creature that has nothing to do with the banshee.

 

This my last post here because this has just been a waste of time since far shee is such a reach.

The image is me running away from this dumb thread.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Skull

[Elveone]

i don't think it means anything. since it's like one book that you found that uses the word In the book i think it's just a throw away line that should be ignored. If the word was widely used in many books then maybe you would have a point. @Roband even said the thing does not even scream so how can it have anything to do with the banshee when it's main factor is that it screams. it could even just be a word that very few people use for some other creature that has nothing to do with the banshee.

 

This my last post here because this has just been a waste of time since far shee is such a reach.

The image is me running away from this dumb thread.

 

 

 

 

[ATTACH type=full" alt="EggkPM-VoAANCzR.jpg]660[/ATTACH]

Perhaps if you have bothered to read as much as you bother to disagree you would see that for quite some time I've been saying that Far Shee is a generic term for a male fairy that was sometimes used for a leprechaun and not a counterpart of the banshee.

[Skull]

Then why post it in a thread about banshee. my god start a new thread then. Plus you were talking about it in relation to banshees

[Reckoning]

Do you know what not being a thing is? Not existing anywhere. The thing is obviously mentioned in multiple places. Denying a thing is mentioned somewhere when you have the place that mentions it right in front of your eyes is asinine. What are going going to argue next? The translation of the term? That it obviously is from the same mythology?

 

And do you know what an anomaly is? An anomaly is something that is not normal. So either the text that mentions the term "far shee" as a counterpart of the banshee is the normal and true one as it is most spread out or one of the 3 unique texts that mentions the term on the internet is not an anomaly but a relative part of the discussion. So which one is it? Is the "far shee" the male counterpart of the banshee or is it a vague term that any information available for is relevant?

"The thing is mentioned" you say.

Mention 1 is saying "it's a leprechaun"

Mention 2 is saying it's the male counterpart to the banshee.

Here is a third mention I've found saying it's what people call Manannán mac Lir

HERE IS ANOTHER Where its says there are TWO types, and one of them are demons "who took on themselves human bodies of men or women, and by making love to the sons and daughters of men, and revealing to them delusive views of a glorious prospective immortality, seduced them into a fatal union by which they were forever lost from God." This one is special though. It is the first one in our entire data set, (4 points) to SOURCE IT.

 

All mentions which take the two Gaelic words for fairy (male), and of the mounds (is that right Mike?), cram them together and end up with so many different things.

NOT. A. THING. Yep, Doubling down here.

 

An anomaly in any give data set does NOT mean that the anomaly is "real" (in quotes because myth can only be so real).

 

There are literally more accounts of bigfoot THIS YEAR than there is for your Far Shee.

 

===========This is where I was when I saw the new replies.===========

I'm not deleting any of this, It's all glorious and I love it.

 

Perhaps if you have bothered to read as much as you bother to disagree you would see that for quite some time I've been saying that Far Shee is a generic term for a male fairy that was sometimes used for a leprechaun and not a counterpart of the banshee.

 

I don't think that was clear.

 

As you can see the validity of both is pretty suspect but the word does appear here and there it seems.

 

I presume this is your turn? I took this more as "the word is there it must be a thing". Not "I concede Banshee men aren't a thing, but maybe Fir Shee Far Shee Ben Shee Fear Sidhe Man Shee Banhee or W/E you want to call it is just a blanket term for a concept of fairy dudes"

[Elveone]

Then why post it in a thread about banshee. my god start a new thread then. Plus you were talking about it in relation to banshees

 

Because someone asked about it and I explained what it is.

 

"The thing is mentioned" you say.

Mention 1 is saying "it's a leprechaun"

Mention 2 is saying it's the male counterpart to the banshee.

Here is a third mention I've found saying it's what people call Manannán mac Lir

HERE IS ANOTHER Where its says there are TWO types, and one of them are demons "who took on themselves human bodies of men or women, and by making love to the sons and daughters of men, and revealing to them delusive views of a glorious prospective immortality, seduced them into a fatal union by which they were forever lost from God." This one is special though. It is the first one in our entire data set, (4 points) to SOURCE IT.

 

All mentions which take the two Gaelic words for fairy (male), and of the mounds (is that right Mike?), cram them together and end up with so many different things.

NOT. A. THING. Yep, Doubling down here.

 

An anomaly in any give data set does NOT mean that the anomaly is "real" (in quotes because myth can only be so real).

 

There are literally more accounts of bigfoot THIS YEAR than there is for your Far Shee.

 

===========This is where I was when I saw the new replies.===========

I'm not deleting any of this, It's all glorious and I love it.

 

 

 

I don't think that was clear.

 

 

 

I presume this is your turn? I took this more as "the word is there it must be a thing". Not "I concede Banshee men aren't a thing, but maybe Fir Shee Far Shee Ben Shee Fear Sidhe Man Shee Banhee or W/E you want to call it is just a blanket term for a concept of fairy dudes"

Really now?

As a dabbler in Irish mythology - the shee, sidhe, sith or aos si are a class of creatures most commonly described as fairies and not one specific species. In addition to the Banshee you've probably heard of the Cat Sith or the Cu Sith the fairy cat and dog and there is also the Leanan Sidhe - the fairy lover but not all of the sidhe are referenced as "something shee". A quick search of the Far Shee finds a reference to it being a Leprechaun. IMO the closest male variant to the Banshee in terms of a bad omen bringer of death would be the Dullahan as it is a headless rider holding his head into this hands that rides into the night and when he stops in front of a househould a person in that household would die. When he calls out the person's name and that person would die and the Dullahan would take his soul.

 

Oh, there is very little to find, mostly a mention in an old book under the description of a banshee.

This is the thing that mentions it as a counterpart of the banshee: https://blogs.lib.ku.edu/spencer/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Yeats_Y194.pdf

Here is a thing that says it is a leprechaun: https://www.duchas.ie/en/src?q=leprechaun&t=CbesTranscript&ct=LG

As you can see the validity of both is pretty suspect but the word does appear here and there it seems.

 

Well, unless you want to rewrite reality it is obviously a thing. A thing that someone found and asked about. It is not a male banshee in the terms of it being a male harbinger of death but it is a male banshee in terms of banshee meaning woman of the sidhe and far shee meaning man of the sidhe. And as you can see there is an independent account for the term being used for a leprechaun.

 

Do you know what not being a thing is? Not existing anywhere. The thing is obviously mentioned in multiple places. Denying a thing is mentioned somewhere when you have the place that mentions it right in front of your eyes is asinine. What are going going to argue next? The translation of the term? That it obviously is from the same mythology?

 

And do you know what an anomaly is? An anomaly is something that is not normal. So either the text that mentions the term "far shee" as a counterpart of the banshee is the normal and true one as it is most spread out or one of the 3 unique texts that mentions the term on the internet is not an anomaly but a relative part of the discussion. So which one is it? Is the "far shee" the male counterpart of the banshee or is it a vague term that any information available for is relevant?

Edited December 4, 2020 by Elveone

[Roband]

Then why post it in a thread about banshee. my god start a new thread then. Plus you were talking about it in relation to banshees

 

Because at a certain point the discussion diverted about if the term exists or not instead of his meaning or if it could be associeted with banshee or with other figures

 

And i posted here because in the websites where i found the term it was associeted with banshee (to whom almost everyone including me agreed that should be female only because it is historically reppresented having a female form) but since i am not a irish folklore expert i asked if someone know something about it

 

Granted, english is not my first language but i thought i had been pretty clear from the beginning

[Calypso]

[uSER=1027]@Cat2D[/uSER] please close this thread and archive it. Please.

[Guest Apocalypse]

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[Livin]

I'd like to give my two cents on this, if its even worth that much, and I'm aware others have already said similar things.

 

First off I think gender might be the wrong way to look at it, its more like an alignment.

If I understand the lore of this game the banshee isn't an undead that once lived a human life but rather something that manifested on the other side of death, so they aren't really even female or women but seen as such because they are feminine in form. With this in mind and depending on how extensive the character creator is it could be possible to create banshees that might be regarded as male; but I would also argue that they should be limited when it comes to what measure of masculinity is possible. This would enable what might be regarded as male to be possible among the banshee but limited to something affeminate, like a smooth skinned pretty boy.

 

Thats the way I could see it working out, either way I look forward to seeing them in the fight.

[DukeVaeVictis]

Late to the party but I'll post anyway (it's not locked!) I might be off the bet but the Banshee comes off as handmaidens and wisewomen, perhaps even as Oracles. Should they remain feminine becasue the developers/lore says so? I think the developers should stay and remain on their vision for the class but to play both side of the coin maybe as a "subclass" to lore in which male "banshess" are mentioned and therefore in the lore.

 

Personally, I am fine with as they are. I don't there is a need to change them.

Edited January 6, 2021 by DukeVaeVictis

[Temuldjin]

I fundamentally disagree with the premise of this topic, not only does It goes against the Mythology / Lore of the " Monster " In question, It also goes against the game design / developer philosophy regarding said monster.